You Can’t Go It Alone: Finding Your Trusted Cybersecurity Community

Analytics/ Analysis

Recently SMB Nation teamed with Ostra and Security Studio to have a non-salesy, open conversation about the challenges Small and Medium Business (SMB) Managed Services Providers (MSPs) face in providing robust cybersecurity solutions. Beyond the technical realm, there is a loneliness feeling that many MSPs feel alone. We hit that head on in the 30-min webcast.

Topics include:

  • Cybersecurity and the channel with industry experts.
  • Cybersecurity partnerships and research.
  • Cybersecurity partnerships and red flags.
  • Security partnerships and education for SMBs.
  • Cybersecurity risks and solutions for managed service providers.
  • Cybersecurity risk assessment and management.


Watch the full conversation HERE!

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Harry Brelsford  13:23

Okay, folks, it's 102. Let me turn on record. Folks, always use the chat feature to ask questions or raise your hand. We'll try to accommodate your questions as we're April's and we are recordings. Okay. 321. Our right SMB Nation. Thanks for joining us today. It's a it's an open conversation that we had the recent basically a recreation of conversation we had at the MSP rescue in Princeton in late July. The title is he can't go it alone finding your trusted cybersecurity community. I'm joined by Frank gurney and Paul Dobbins. My name is Harry Brelsford. I'm the founder of SMB Nation doing it all day every day. Frank over to you we've known each other 20 It's embarrassing. We've known the other two decades

Frank Gurnee  14:21

I don't know about embarrassing Of course. You know the gray hair and you got it on the sides or you don't have the beard like Paul and I do but yeah, known each other a long time both back in the SMB Nation days. You know all the fun stuff we used to do back then with SBS server and all these kinds of things but yeah, go way back. My name is Frank Gurney, I am the channel Director of Security studio. We are risk management platform and just been in the in the industry a long time. So from having been with an MSP and helping to kind of create and grow managed services over Time webmarketing came out of telecommunication, so the whole nine yards. But yeah, that's a little bit of my background. And yeah, Paul, how about yourself?

Paul Dobbins  15:12

Yes, thanks, Paul Dobbins. Um, I'm the newbie to the group here. I've met these gentlemen in the last year or so with Ostrow cybersecurity. I'm the chief growth Officer and Chief growth officer, and based out of Florida, but Austria is based in Minnesota. So that makes for some interesting travel in the winter. Yeah, so we're kind of from all over the country, Texas, California, and Florida represented here. But my background is really primarily marketing. I've been in technology for pretty much my entire career. So I've worked with a lot of different startups, major corporations as well. And so yeah, excited to join you guys. Once again, I was introduced to the our partnership with security studio and also with MSP rescue with Harry. So pleasure to be with you guys today. Thanks for having me.

Harry Brelsford  16:15

Well, let's jump right into it. So folks, the idea was this. Let's just have an open conversation, zero PowerPoints. That's kind of my new thing. Don't you know, 24 don't know if I'll even create a PowerPoint slide. But we wanted to celebrate Cybersecurity Awareness Month, we have a couple days left and next week's a dud, because it's in the month and we know we wouldn't get your attention within a month. So we wanted to pop it this week midweek. And I'm just going to jump right into it. Frank, we'll start with you. There's three main questions today, folks, raise your hand or use the chat to ask questions. And the first one is, why the channel is broken? And why MSPs are paying the price Franco first.

Frank Gurnee  17:05

Yeah. So I mean, it's, you know, it's a big question, right. But the thing right now is, you guys have both been at a number of events and different things. And we're seeing that cybersecurity is everywhere. And you know, the managed service provider today. This entire thing looks a lot like it did 1520 years ago, right, Harry when we saw this change, going from it break fix companies to manage services, right? And, and everything was managed services at that point, and nobody knew how to do it. There was a ton of misinformation as far as how to do it and what to do. And really in our industry, what's what's broken right now that I see is that it's very similar in that sense that nobody really knows how to do this cybersecurity stuff. It's everywhere. And everybody's throwing their solution. atcha. Right. And it's everyone that you know, every shiny object that you can see is there to be had. But how do you pull this together? What do you do? How do you bring it together? And what does it mean for the MSP? That is doing it? And you know, when I talk about miscommunication, I mean, one of the biggest things as people out there saying, you're an MSP today, you need to be an MSSP. It's just not going to happen for most MSPs. The reality is an MSSP. And Paul, you can probably speak to this pretty well, you know, you're going to build out a sock, you're going to build out a sim, you're going to you're going to spend millions of bucks doing that, in order to be you know, what is truly an MSSP. So, you know, here at cert security studio, we recognize that, that there's something in between there's a middle ground, and we call it MCSP, which is managed cybersecurity service provider, and that differentiates you from a traditional MSP. It's the next step in the evolution. And think of it as in between an MSSP and an MSP. So I think miscommunication is one of the biggest things that we find right now in the broken industry. And Paul, maybe you can speak to that whole MSSP thing.

Paul Dobbins  19:16

Yeah, absolutely. Kind of along those those same lines, I think the folks who have heard heard me speak in the last year or two, you've probably heard, heard the phrase where there's mystery, there's margin. And that phrase was one that really stuck with me. And that was one that was used by a particular vendor and speaking to MSPs along those same lines, encouraging them to become more of an MSSP. And essentially, the message was, you're basically an MSSP and truly kind of misleading them down down that road. And, you know, I think I'm probably skipping a little bit into into the second question. But you know, when you think about like how to how to find the right cybersecurity partners and who's going to be the right, the right partner for that, it's, it's really the ones that are that are being honest and forthright and. And, you know, one of the things that that I love about security studio is, you know, every time that we go to these ASCII events, one of the one of the key things that you guys talk about is, there is no easy button, you still have to put in the work. So anytime that new, I guess I'll cover question three to any, anytime that you get someone that saying, like, we have the all in one solution. And this is this is going to be all you need to secure everything. And this is going to fix all of your problems. Don't walk run away, like you want you want a partner that's going to be honest and forthright with you. And they're not going to promise you the world, they're going to be honest. And they're gonna say, look, here's what we can offer you. But there's still going to be work involved. There is no staples easy button here. So but what really bothered me about the myths where there's mystery, there's margin is that truly indicates that we shouldn't be transparent. And at the end of the day, that's just not the right direction, especially when we're talking about cybersecurity. Like that is where we need to be the most transparent.

Harry Brelsford  21:42

Yeah, I'll add a couple of thoughts. One is, I this morning, I got up, got up and had an email from us. As some of you may know, Jeffery Schwartz, longtime writer for Redman, channel partner magazine, most recently channel futures. He was at a Lenovo AI tech conference in downtown Austin, Texas. And he said, Hey, you know, do you want to come down for breakfast and sit in on a couple of speeches. And Frank, back to your point, the confusion, the hype, it's all that it's all that with AI right here. Here we go. Again, it's nice to add in on three speeches, and then I had to Dart home to host this webinar. But you know, this isn't my first rodeo. The other thing, the question on the table is why the channel is broken, why MSPs are paying the price. I'll give you a another quick take, and then we'll move on. But a lot of you know, our Peretz HyperCard 365 If you're going to it nation in a couple of weeks, he has a booth there super good guy had a good talk with him the other day, and I don't think he'd mind me sharing. But there's some in the fourth quarter here in 23, there's some supply chain weakness, there's softness, and he said it goes like this, that, you know, the SMB customers are seeing softness, which means that goes to the MSP, right, that you know, we either gotta cut back or we got to do this or we got to do that. And then it goes to the vendor, because the MSP is not an ordering as much consumption. And so I equate it to the, you know, the bird ate the spider and the cat eat the bird. And so that's, in my opinion, right here, right now, why the channel is quote, unquote, broken? Not Now that said, all this stuff will normalize over time. Right? I mean, you know, this, you know, don't don't go sell short. But with that said, let's move on. We have the second question tips for finding the right cybersecurity partners.

Frank Gurnee  23:50

Yeah, I mean, I, you know, research obviously, right. I mean, doing your research, talking to people. It's always been this way in our industry, you know, taking the advice of your peers, right, what do you what are you guys using? What are what are we doing? The other thing is, you know, to not get caught up in the hype, right. I mean, the idea of jumping into anything is is not the way to do it right now, a ton. And it goes back to misinformation. There's a ton of misinformation around compliance, and that, you know, everything is compliance, and you gotta be doing compliance for your customers, what compliance is very specific to certain industries, certain, you know, types of companies and that sort of thing. Now, what I would say is that, you know, and I'm in this business, but we're a risk assessment is no different than a network assessment, in the sense of, it should be the starting place of any cyber engagement. So as long as you're doing an assessment or risk assessment, initially, you're going to find out the things that you need to be doing for your customers. And you can put those pieces in place, you know, endpoint protect attendance just, you know, think that's something you have to be doing for every customer. So every customer should have a risk assessment, every customer should have Endpoint Protection doesn't matter. But do they need further compliance? Maybe not. Right. So, you know, understanding that and getting in front of it and doing your research is the biggest thing. And, Paul, what are your thoughts there?

Paul Dobbins  25:21

Yeah, I think, also, when it comes to the research aspect, you know, when asking when asking questions about that, making sure that they're able to understand, understand their lane, a lot of a lot of companies are trying to be everything to everyone. And, you know, I will say there's, there's a piece of a piece of the cybersecurity industry where you've seen the church with how many cybersecurity companies are out there, and it fills up an eight and a half by 11. And they're like, itty bitty logos. And it's completely full, right? The logo chart? Yeah, it's, it's very, it's a very fractured and siloed. Industry. But the nice part is that, that there are experts in various capacities within those, those different expertise is, and knowing, you know, knowing, knowing that and knowing who the experts are, and making sure that you're asking, asking those questions, asking your peers. And then understanding that, you know, the right partner is really those who are collaborative in nature, who are also partnering with others. Because I think, you know, I say this often. We teach spending more and more, I mean, a ton of money on cybersecurity, and we just keep getting our asses kicked. And why is that, like, we have to start considering, like, why do we keep spending all of this time, energy and resources, and we just keep getting our teeth kicked in. We have to start working more collaboratively as an industry. Like, when we have, when we have attacks, you'll notice that certain companies will go on the offensive. And rather than work, work together to work for the good of all companies and work for, you know, work to make sure that things are being addressed appropriately. You'll see companies true colors come through, whether they are taking advantage and trying to to completely obliterate companies that that happened to be a target. You know, anyone can be a target. And I think that you know, I think that's an important thing to look at is when things when things are tough when bad things happen. In cybersecurity, look at how companies respond.

Harry Brelsford  28:33

Yeah. Yeah. And Paul, I might add on there. It's, it's not it's an analogy, and it's not the strongest analogy, but I like your idea about collaboration. So you're, I'm gonna give it my best shot. About a month ago, I went to a well respected intellectual academic conference here in Austin called The Texas Tribune festival, non partisan media outlets. So they had both sides, they had both sides of the aisle. And I went to those panels, right, and, you know, and kept with open eyes. And what I found coming out of that three day was, you know, at the end of the day, we're gonna solve problems by, you know, meeting in the middle of sitting down at a table. Some of the writings from early Microsoft SPS, we had this whole thing about the bearer zone. So it's a time tested business paradigm. But that's, that's how we solve problems, folks. You know, you're just, you can't be too fun. Again, we're not getting political. Because it can be the same in business. You just can't be too far off to the side. It's, it's going to happen in the middle, especially if you want a long term relationship. If you came in late, please use the chat feature. or raise your hand if you'd like to ask questions. I think I can unmute you. So I can always listen don't tend white and Houston at some point to raise his hand. And can I look forward to our one on one conversation coming up soon? The third question and final question, again, we wanted to stay targeted, how to ask the right questions and identify red flags. Paul, we'll start with you this time?

Paul Dobbins  30:19

Sure. Well, I think they kind of blends into finding the right cybersecurity partners as well. And it's really, you know, finding out what they truly stand for. And I think, you know, I think references or references are outstanding, but also, you know, I like to I have a couple of examples of, you know, finding out what, what these partners are truly about. But, you know, from from Red Flag perspective, so that's part of this question. I kind of mentioned it earlier, guarantees 100 100% security, all in one solutions. You know, I mentioned earlier, watch what watch what companies do and say, after, after significant events in cybersecurity. I can't tell you how many people I talked to afterwards that said, you know, what, if we were there, we would have stopped that, you know, what? Okay, let's, let's, let's be honest. Let me. And then after asking a couple of questions, we were able to talk through that, and they were able to understand, not really, so. But in reality, I want to give a couple of examples. And I want to give a little bit of praise to a couple of our partners, one, Ira talks about security Studio, you know, putting in the work, but really, because their their education based, finding out if they have the same values as you do, asking those questions, making sure that they have the same values as you do. I think that's the most important thing. That's how we base our partnerships. Fr secure is a sister company of security studio. They, they talked about mission before money. Now anyone can say that. But when the founder and CEO of the company tells their entire team, and I'm pretty sure this actually happened. Yeah, if you sell something they don't need, I will run you over with my truck. Then yeah, I've heard that. Yeah. I've heard that for I didn't hear firsthand, but I've heard it from enough people that I'm pretty sure that the run over. And then we have another partner that we started working with Hook security. They can they Yeah, they have a they have a little bit different approach from security education. They go from a psychological perspective. But they definitely have a holistic approach. We like how they approach the education aspect, their startup. We like the fact that they're all basically from education and from startups. And they definitely have the same approaches we do and the same fundamental values. And so in a nutshell, I think asking the right questions, from a value perspective is one of the most important things.

Harry Brelsford  33:26

And Paul, let me just interject, folks hook security. They're on my list. They have a booth at it nation and about two weeks in Orlando. And again, it's just leave it nation. I'll just leave it at that. Frank, over to you. Yeah.

Frank Gurnee  33:42

Yeah, I mean, a lot of what Paul said, right. The thing that I think truly, when you're when you're looking at vendors and partners and partnerships is you know, who's coming at it from my perspective and seeing that from the MSP, right. So who understands my business as an MSP? Who, who knows what's next for me and is looking out for my best interests, and not just their, you know, bottom line pockets. And truly, that's every day for you know, for me, I been in that seat that you guys are have sold managed services, I've done it all. So I understand the, you know, the, the, how tough it is right? To do this, and especially with something new and, you know, having made that transition once you know, from a certain type of company to another, got a nice good 10 1015 year run here as a managed service provider. And now you know, it's changing and evolving. And that's always tough. Change is tough, right? So if your vendor can understand that what you're going through and how to help your business that's gonna make a huge difference and you don't you know, what's great is we see and when we go out on the road, we see a lot of familiar faces that we've known that's been in the channel for a long time. And with different companies and these guys, you know, when you see those familiar faces, you know that they know what you've been through, and where you've come from and where you're going. And so, you know, I just say that just, anybody who has an understanding of your business is going to be a better partner for you. You know, at the end of the day, if they come from, you know, an enterprise solution can be be great, but do they understand the MSP? You know, maybe not right. And so you really have to look at those things when you're when you're really vetting, your partnerships. And those are the types of questions to ask is like, you know, how do you help us as an MSP start this business start doing this. And, you know, we've, we've done a lot of things with our partner program to help our MSPs get started. And, you know, that's something that we continue to work towards providing sales enablement, tools, and marketing campaigns and web pages, and all of this kind of stuff for you to be able to use in your business and don't have to come up with from scratch. Those are all really important pieces. So yeah, I mean, I think, you know, from that perspective, it's like, anyone that you can look at and ask those types of questions to invent from that perspective is going to be a better partner for you. Excellent.

Harry Brelsford  36:17

Hey, Laura, do I saw your question in chat, but I've elevated you if you are comfortable turning on your microphone, and would like to ask your question, and we can kind of go a synchronous? If not, Laura, there she is, Laura, how you doing? I'm

Laura DiDio  36:32

doing well, how are you? I'm doing well, I thought it was about time I joined one of your conferences. So I've been as you know, covering security for a long time going back to my days at Network World in the late 80s. And I'm still only 29 One of the things that I've seen in covering security, particularly within the SMB space is that the technology has advanced, but the mindset of many users, especially in the SMB segment, is still stuck in the 90s. Many of them feel, hey, it's not going to happen to my business. I'm flying below the radar. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I can't afford it. There are so many solutions out there whom do I know, to? Whom do I know, to trust? And the best one of all? Is? You know, security is just too tough. You know, it's just, it's just too tough. So how do you how do you change that? Because clearly, everyone needs security. And I hear time and time, again, from consultants and MSPs, that many of many, not all of the SMBs just don't get it? And, you know, adopt the ostrich approach, head in the sand.

Frank Gurnee  38:03

Yeah. I mean, I think I have a good, a good, you know, speak to that, Laura, and amazing, amazing insight. You're 100%. Right. And as the managed service providers evolved, you know, managed service providers came in and what did they say they said, We're going to be your it outsourced IT company, we're going to handle it all for you. You don't have to worry about technology anymore. We've got you covered, right. And that's been fantastic. And it did them really well. And everybody got MRR, and that was perfect. But now as cyber has changed, and these breaches are happening and all this stuff, and all these pieces of the puzzle have not been implemented into these SMB environments. There's a problem. And the problem is that the customer thinks they're doing it. They think the MSP is handling this for them. So whenever a new breach comes up, and the new newest new story, they go, I'm not worried because XYZ MSP has been ordered, right. So the, the the idea here is, and this is where I was going back to it all starts with a risk assessment. Any managed service provider can now go back to their customer in a QBR, which they're supposed to be doing, which probably was one of those things, but hey, schedule a QBR go out and do a risk assessment for your customer provide them a score of how they're doing from a cyber perspective. And all you have to say to that customer at this point is we wanted to come in and do this risk assessment for you because we are concerned about breaches and things happening. This isn't something we've covered in the past. However, you know what's great. If you move up to our next level of our solution, we will cover those things for you. Two things happen in that one, you either added more revenue to your business by just doing that simple task and talking to them about cybersecurity. The second thing you informed them that this is an issue and something you don't cover it If they say no, you also put a paper in front of them that says, I just need you to sign the same. We're not responsible if a breach occurs, and two things will happen there. They'll either sign it, or they won't sign it. They'll say they want their lawyers to look at or they'll second, they'll think about it and say, You know what, maybe we should go with your better solution. Right? So it's a win win for the MSP to do that in that fashion. Because now they're engaging with that customer. They're letting them know it's not something covered, and it is something that they can.

Harry Brelsford  40:31

Cool. Hey, we have time. Oh, Christy is saying that it's already been covered. Christie followed up with Laura, let me just read it. Folks. We have time for one more question. I'm happy to elevate you. Christy, sad to toe we have someone coming in. Okay, Mike. The further Laura's question, how do you help new clients overcome the reality? They have been doing zero for security. And when you amp that up? There is a cost gentleman quickly?

Frank Gurnee  41:07

Paul, you want to hit it? I can hit it as well, either way. I'll go ahead.

Paul Dobbins  41:11

Yeah, no, I think? Well, I think I think I think Frank kind of kind of touched on that is making sure that they that they have that initial visibility. So you have to level set on where they currently stand. And you have to have that initial reality check. And then it's making sure that you can get through. You know, I think, Laura, you mentioned that a little bit. There's, there's so much out there. We'd like to call it cyber Jurgen is making sure that you're able to simplify that. And I'll be honest with you, you know, full transparency. One of the things that we struggled with is not just from an from an SMB standpoint, but even from an MSP standpoint with cybersecurity. Offering cybersecurity in a different way as we do. Where we are essentially an outsourced cybersecurity team for MSPs has been something that that that we are just gaining ground on because MSPs have been used to offering siloed solutions for 20 years. You know, you mentioned the 90s It's hard to believe that was 24 years ago, right. But it's not the 90s anymore, right? Yeah. And it's time to start rethinking about how we're delivering solutions. So that MSPs can stick to what they're doing outstanding, because you know, 85% of of small businesses that are out there are reconsidering their MSP right now, because you guys aren't, you know, they are overwhelmed. I mean, there there is a shortage of of, of people out there. I like to say that it's not a tools problem. It's not a technology problem. Right now cybersecurity is a people problem. And that's, that's honestly what we're trying to solve. And that's quite honestly been our biggest challenge. full transparency. So

Harry Brelsford  43:25

cool. Hey, I have time for one more question and I think it's being typed let's see Lyle. While happening I'll tell you what, in the spirit of time while I'm going to read your question for gimmies from SECURE IT systems, if you focus on mitigating risk, you will look back to the right cyber solution high level thoughts on that and then I'll close with a little funny story about Laura to do

Frank Gurnee  43:58

Yeah, I mean, you know, I Lyle hit that the nail on the head really and this is what we're trying to do with security studio I create you know, we we really created a unlimited way to do risk assessments for MSP so they can go in literally do a lightweight risk assessment and let the client understand what their risk is right. And so you can come in like I said at that QBR for your existing customers and for any new potential customers use that as a tool to get in the door. The second part to that would be it's also a sales issue, right? Everybody gets a new thing a new shiny toy and you want to sell it, look, you're not going to sell your customer on endpoint protection or sock or Sam or any of these things. That is not the thing to do. What you do is you do what you did and manage services you go in and you say look, we can help you with this thing cybersecurity thing. You don't have to worry about the ins the outs the technology, what's in the built into it, you build out your stack the way you want. You use solutions like Austria to that covers the majority of the or like security studio to get in the door. And then you let them know what your solution is not the thing that you need to sell them. And so that's the biggest thing I would say that we all fail in typically in the MSP world is we go and we try to sell the technology, or we tried to sell them out.

Paul Dobbins  45:20

I want to, I want to say one quick thing, because I've seen a lot of these risk assessments. And a lot of these risk assessments are extremely complex, they're way too long. They're, you know, it puts you to sleep, etc. The thing that I really liked about what, what you guys have done is you've made it relative to what people already know, people know what their credit score is. And so you have related it to the credit score. Yeah, I

Harry Brelsford  45:48

like that. Yeah,

Paul Dobbins  45:49

I love that. Because as I as I looked at it, because I've seen a ton of them. As I looked at it, I was, it was very easy for me to go in and look at a company's scores and see exactly what exactly what needed to be changed.

Frank Gurnee  46:06

So, and it's a good thing, because, you know, we're always working on our own personal credit always, like I'm always looking at, how can I get to be the highest score that I can? And every time I get a loan or something, and it drops me down? How do I work to get it back up? In security, it's the same way. There's always a new vulnerability. There's always a new hack, so that's gonna knock you down some, but you're always working to get back up and get yourself in the best position possible. So yeah, it does. It does make a lot of sense. And when

Paul Dobbins  46:33

you think about it, credit is just risk. That's right. It is.

Harry Brelsford  46:37

And that's a whole nother conversation. Gentlemen. We will reconvene. Yeah, we'll reconvene next year. I appreciate your time today. Laura. Are you still live? Laura want to have a little fun with us? We we go out? Yes, I'm here. Oh, okay. So so I want to have fun with you still doing the horses? Yes. Okay, cool. Well, I have an update for you. And boy, you're gonna regret this, but my son and his wife have made their home in Newtons outside Boston. So I get up there, you know, three, four times a year. So you're you're gonna regret that I? I know where to find you.

Laura DiDio  47:16

25 miles away from west of New. Cool.

Harry Brelsford  47:20

Hey, good to see your name. Well, and Laura, what was your claim to fame? I'm gonna say gardener. I know. I got it wrong. Whoa, was ganky you were Yankee crew?

Laura DiDio  47:27

Well, no, I was giga, which became forester. I was Yankee, I was Strategy Analytics. I was. Let's see. 451, which got bought by I can't even recall all the m&a. Everybody says going gets acquired. Yeah. So yeah, a lot of them and of course, Network World computer world. Some PC week land. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, we really going back, you know,

Paul Dobbins  47:58

we'll have to don't exist. That sounds like quite quite a quite a journey. I'll reach out to you.

Harry Brelsford  48:05

Yeah, yeah, please,

Laura DiDio  48:06

please, I would like to pick this up. And I would like to maybe write an article on you guys. For my web page, and a couple of others that I write for, because I also do a lot of security surveys and hear a lot of first person accounts. And I think, Paul, what you said is exactly the right thing, when you talk about risk, and how to get through to these people. And Frank, you talked about going in, and with the credit scores, etc. You have to start at the first brick on the yellow brick road. And any company I don't care what the size that is not doing vulnerability testing at least once a year. The risk is off the chart. Cool. Hey,

Harry Brelsford  49:00

Laura, Laura, kick beanie. Let's Let's reconnect Harry be at SMB Very simple. Harry be at SMB Nation. KitKat. And I'll connect you with Frank and Paul. And also get on your calendar for my next visit. Folks, thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for your time. You know, it's that's we took your time and

Paul Dobbins  49:26

questions. We love the interaction. Yeah,

Frank Gurnee  49:28

for sure. Yeah. So can we get a shout out to where they can find his hairy?

Harry Brelsford  49:34

Yeah, yeah. Well, we'll end on that. Go ahead.

Frank Gurnee  49:37

Yeah, Paul, go for it.

Paul Dobbins  49:39

Yeah, you can reach me at Paul that Darwin's at Austro dotnet Oh, s tra dot n et.

Frank Gurnee  49:47

Yeah. And so f Gurney G u r n e at security. So Frank gurney and yeah, just check us out.

Harry Brelsford  49:57

And folks, as always to get a follow up email from The and also

Paul Dobbins  50:01

you guys know Harry, he can always go Yeah

Harry Brelsford  50:09

super good to see you again Laura. Everybody have a great day enjoy Halloween I'm going to go out to a little adult Halloween party. Now not naughty. Nice, nice Saturday night no often

Frank Gurnee  50:23

do those two things go together Saturday night Austin and nice. I don't know. Sounds naughty to me.

Harry Brelsford  50:30

Okay, take care. Thank you very much, everybody. Bye